In the article "What urban students say about good teaching", the author talks about the dominant perspective that students in low income neighborhoods in Philadelphia hold on "good teachers". Control of the classroom, diversity and variety in routine, persistence, clear explanations, and willingness to help and understand the students were all qualities which these urban students believed to be essential for their teachers to posses in order to learn. The article continues to talk about the aligning of perspectives and what constitutes good teaching by these urban students as they develop through introductions of new school reforms.
Reading this article got me thinking about how I must have felt during my middle and high school years. How did I judge my teachers on whether or not they were good teachers?Also, was my emphasis on learning directly correlated to how my teacher treated me in the classroom, or my personal values on education? If I had to give an answer to the first question, I would say that the qualities I believe make a good teacher (as well as the ones I wish to possess during my future teaching) are fairly aligned with the ones discussed in this article. As for the second question, I would have to say that my emphasis on school and learning were honestly not there during those years. I feel that although I had teachers who I would qualify as "good" teachers, I wouldn't really say I cared much about learning. It wasn't until later that I graduated from high school that I really valued my education and wanted to learn as much as I could.
It is obvious now as a future educator that the importance and emphasis in education has shifted greatly. However, after a few psychology classes during my college career, I have learned that some of the decisions, feelings, and thoughts that teenagers have during their adolescent years may be limited due to their physical and cognitive development respective to their age. And so, I propose the question to you, do you believe that ALL students care as much about learning as was greatly emphasized in this article? Do you think they students have the capability of caring about learning as we as educators do due to their still progressing physical and cognitive development? do you think reforms could ever be undertaken and implemented solely on students' perspectives?
Very interesting questions Edgar! I think that the article did a good job in choosing students that articulated their feelings and ideas well enough to be understood. But I did wonder what their criteria was when choosing kids; did they ask the teachers who they taught did not care about school, did they “self defined” as students that did not care, or was it based on grades? I do not know. But what I can say is that as a kid and teenager I loved school, and well still do! I did well in school because I learned to do school, I always did my work regardless of my feelings towards the teacher, and if I did not understand I asked someone else to explain it. (I also attended my neighborhood school) Like me I am sure there is a couple more students in our urban schools, students that for some reason do not need an adult to justify doing well in school or caring for school, students that do not need to be constantly supervise about doing their work. But I am not sure how many of those are in our system. I would like to assume that the majority of our future students will fall under the category presented in the article; students that care about school but need good teachers to help them along. I will say that the students used in the article came up with a great list of things that make good teachers and that list is good for ALL students!
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed this article very much. I agree that it is very important to be able to understand our students and to be able to keep in mind their perspective in order to accurately diversify our lessons and meet their needs. On the other hand, I believe that as an educator it is essential to encourage our students to take responsibility and control of their education. We can show them we care, but ultimately it is their decision to take advantage of all the resources available (which I hope as good educators we will be providing).
ReplyDeleteThis article was great to read because it's intereesting to hear from a student's perspective what makes a "good" teacher. It was interesting that the students labeled students as good when they were able to learn, without necessarily focusing on their personalities. I know that what I thought of as a good teacher when I was in high school was a teacher who seemed like they enjoyed what they where doing, who kept students engaged, and who made learning easy (explained clearly and made sure we understood). Ever since I was in elementary school, and up to now, I have always cared about my education and learning. I really do believe that all students care about learning, but some students have certain circumstances that make it hard to focus or put their entire attention on their education, such as having a job, or taking care of siblings, among many other situations. Therefore, I definitely find it a "good" teacher characteristic to take time to know their students and their circumstances, because these can have a great affect on their learning.
ReplyDeleteHi Edgar,
ReplyDeleteYour questions at the end of the post pose very important questions in regards to our (future) students. I also agree with the criteria that the articles have mentioned and I'm going to add that all students do care about their education, however some students just need to gain trust in teachers and to push away from the idea that teachers are just another authority figure in their lives. Now, as the others have posted, I too was a student who completed my work regardless of whether I liked the teacher or not since either I was too afraid of my parents' reaction to my grades or (in later years of schooling) didn't want to fail my own expectations. However, as you have mentioned, this type of student will be a small population of the student body and will be the least of a teacher's worries. The larger part of the student population will require the teachers to gain their respect before they will attempt to try in one's class. Showing the students that you are a regular human being who is prone to mistakes, humor, and everything else in life will hopefully cause the students to realize that you are not in fact after them but actually trying to help them. Unfortunately, this technique does not always work and some students will continue to ignore you and the assigned work. But, I believe that as long as you come off in a way that does not show that you are making yourself superior to them, then they'll loosen their ideas about you as an authority figure and become more respectful to you as an educator. Not sure if this will work with everyone but from my experience, this along with the criteria stated in the article reminded me of the teachers which I categorized as "good teachers".
Hi Edgar,
ReplyDeleteI think that the reality of many of the schools most of us will end up teaching in is that we will find that most students do not care about learning as much as it was emphasized in the article on the surface. I think teachers will definitely have to do some digging by holding students accountable, and being more strict about turning in assignments very early on in the semester. However I do think that most students WANT to care, they just need a reason to show it. This is why I really advocate for bringing real life examples into the classroom, finding controversial topics that students are passionate about etc.
Hey Edgar,
ReplyDeleteThe questions you raise are very important to consider. I do think that students care about their education, but I think when see students who seem not to, they just haven't been given the right opportunities. The qualities of good teaching indicated in the article are those that show students that teachers really are there to see the success of their students. When teachers don't engage in these practices, it could be that students feel their teachers don't care about them, so they stop trying. I wonder, though, what all the responses were in this study. Perhaps they're only presenting the nice looking data. I observed in an honors senior English course last spring, and my professor said that we should try our best to challenge them and to work them hard because "they're seniors, in an honors tracked course, and they're in CPS. If they're still in school at this point, they want to be here." Hearing that made me think about all the dropouts in CPS and what exactly was at the root of those numbers. Was it the student, the teacher, or something more?
I don't think any student has ever not wanted to learn anything. There must be something that is relevant and interesting for the student to want to learn. Most of the time you find a student disengaged because of outside classroom issues. I think a teacher has to mend subject with engagement of the students. This is what may be difficult. However, as to what should be learned (curriculum based off of students) I think we have to ask ourselves where we want to be as a nation before we can determine what should be taught in schools. Along with that conversation we should use history to provide concrete examples of where education has had a huge impact and where it will not have an impact at all. These are the ideas in which I think we should gauge our conversations for a better education system.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Abel on this. Students always want to learn about topics they like. What they do not like is how some teachers lead their class. No one wants to be in the class with the droll teacher who makes students do work packets every week. It seems obvious as to how to engage students. Throughout our time in the program, we learned many strategies to resolve. What I believe leads teachers to become the teacher students do not like is the simplicity of doing what "bad" teachers do. We can all make work packets and strictly adhere to the rules but to truly engage our students, we need to understand and reach out to them.
ReplyDeleteHey Edgar,
ReplyDeleteYou bring up an excellent point about students' physical and cognitive development possibly effecting their ability to perceive education in a light of more importance. This can be evidenced by adolescents' desire for more instant gratification, which often times is not present with education. Far too often are students told that they need to learn something now because it will somehow, possibly be relevant to them 10 years down the road. This is disengaging for many youth, and I know it was for me. However, we should not generalize that students may not care about LEARNING, but instead they may not care about learning a particular subject. Once they see that the subject can be relevant to their lives now, as well as help them in the future, they will care to learn about it, and thus care about learning.
Many of the opinions that are previously stated are pretty believable, most students go to school not with the intention of learning but at the end of the day getting a day closer to getting that high school diploma. Students are more eager to learn things that interest them or relate to their daily life. So what we can do as future educators is try to engage students with a variety of ways to spark their motivation and interest. Not all high school students are the same so we shouldn't immediately over-generalize. But referring back to psychology learning is said to be a great mental exercise so we come to the question are we putting all these students in schools to exercise their minds and become better thinkers and analytics? I believe so thus creating the learner.
ReplyDeleteHi Edgar, I enjoyed the article and agreed with it in a lot of things; however, I did sense it was a bit biased. At least in my high school, there seemed to be kids who would act out all the time. One was into gangs and selling drugs-I am curious as to what he would identify as a good teacher (because, as I remember, our home room teacher was a great teacher-strict-but taught very well-anyway, one day this kid tried to punch him). I think there are definitely some students who would claim that good teachers are those that have poor management skills and are lenient. I, personally, hated teachers that pushed me; however, now that I'm older-I appreciate them and the way they took the time to push me (with very little mercy at times). Teenage Greta loathed them though-no doubt about that. Anyway, I think a teacher needs to also be understanding-like the reading also stated. I think compassion and understanding are a huge necessity for anyone who plans to teach in an "inner-city" school to have-considering the issues so e of these kids have to deal with outside and inside the school.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHola Edgar. I don't think there will be too much disagreement on the thrust of the article and the qualities that are sought in a "good" teacher. Your second question is far more problematic and far more difficult. Personally, I was driven to do well in school by parental expectations and frankly, I also didn't want to be one of the "dumb" ones. I was never a great athlete, so frankly I also expressed my competitive spirit in academics. I still distinctly remember my great academic "enemies" as we fought for who would get the highest test score, etc. (as early as 2nd grade,.. another set in 7th grade, etc) That 'fear" has always affected a large part of my decision making throughout my life (though people's definitions on what constituted "dumb" may vary.. my point is I've always refused to do things or be portrayed in how/what "I" considered "dumb",. What motivates students, why and at what age is really the $64K question, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteThere are simply SO many potential factors that can go into this.... stage of cognitive development, parental influence, peer group pressure/influence, socio-economic background which often ties in with other factors. Etc oh and personally - love of reading? If you actually like to read - school isn't nearly as burdensome - in fact, it can become fairly easy at elementary, secondary and even undergraduate levels. Frankly, if I could control ONE factor of a any kid's "development" or "personality", etc - I would instill in them a love for reading.. I believe that quality would/could trump all the others.. all the other barriers.
I've read literature suggesting that yes, all students do care deeply about learning.. but they hide it or it's being hidden due to other factors.. (environment, socio-economics, etc). I don't particularly 'buy" this argument - I am sure there are "some" that fit this mold - but I've known students from the "best" backgrounds (socio-economics, parents, environment etc) who couldn't care less about school or learning, etc.
This particular question fascinates me and I always zero in on classmates or people from let's say "complicated" or underprivileged backgrounds and see what "worked" for them. I still haven't received a satisfactory or revolutionary answer, but this question always fascinates me. Remember the aspiring (perhaps now teaching) math teacher from our EDU 445 (Prof. Horn's) class? the guy from Pilsen who hung around with the "wrong crowd" (by his own admission?) When I asked him what changed his mind/approach, he simply said that sometime around 13 or so... he changed his mind about what was important for/to him but I could never zero in what precisely changed his mind. and how/why? (perhaps simply cognitive development?)
Once again.. I think this is the great question/challenge of our time. The views of the "educational establishment" at places such as UIC and most others are very clear. Just throw money at the problem. Because if an inner city Chicago school had the same "resources" as New Trier, then the students would receive similar educations. Sorry - I don't think so. It's far more complicated. (though the manner of how schools are funded and receive resources is a separate discussion and I agree about the unfairness of current system).
Anyways , this question never ceases to fascinate me.Currently in one of my classes that I am observing, there is a freshman girl who is clearly head and shoulders above her classmates.. in her approach, in her diligence, and this clearly translates into her knowledge, as for e.g. she exhibits a far broader and better understanding of vocabulary than her peers. What motivates her? I'm immensely curious, especially given she comes from exactly the same underprivileged background as her peers.
forgot to add about that girl - it could be "genetics" - she could simply have an aptitude for learning - but she's also clearly diligent about/in her classroom demeanor, behavior and work. so a genetic aptitude wouldn't explain the motivation to learn.
DeleteEdgar,
ReplyDeleteTo answer succinctly, no, I do not believe that every student is going to care about or feel as invested in the education process as we will as teachers. Moreover, it is unrealistic--and probably irresponsible--for educators to enter into the classroom context with that sort of expectation. This should not, however, be allowed to prevent teachers from seeking meaningful feedback from all of their students, even, or perhaps especially, those who seemingly lack the commitment necessary to achieve satisfactory academic success. It is our responsibility to develop approaches that promise to benefit all of our students. That some of our students may not share our appreciation for the importance of education should serve to motivate us to find new ways with which to engage them.
Josh
Edgar,
ReplyDeleteGreat blog! I also didn't particularly care much about learning in school. I was always a good student and did what was expected of me, but at the end of the day it was the social interactions I had with friends that made school interesting to me. When I attended high school, my parents divorced and I was sent to a suburban school without any of my previous friends and my grades suffered. I checked out and did just what I needed to get by and not make waves. I say this not to turn your blog into my personal diary, but to agree with those that stated this article leaves out a huge factor of what is exactly going on in their students lives. It's easy to ask me what I think makes a good teacher (someone who respects and listens to me) but a whole different matter to say that it affects my willingness to learn.
Edgar,
ReplyDeleteNice post! Keeping our students engaged seems to be daunting at times. I've really come to recognize that students' perceptions of their teachers evolve quite rapidly throughout the school year. So while some may regard their teacher with distaste, others may have a completely different perspective due to their rapid working mind and adolescent behavior.
Nice job! Saarah Mohammed
Great questions! I cannot say that I think every student cares about their learning as much as stressed in the article but I do think they care about their learning as opposed to actually analyzing the learning environment, teacher's knowledge, etc. (if that makes sense) I feel like when I was in both middle and high school my focus was on the grades. I wasn't really thinking about my environment as much as just making sure I got the "A" I felt I needed/deserved. I never once questioned a teacher's authority unless they made their own self vulnerable (by stating things such as this is my first year teaching this, I had to learn it myself over the summer, its not my expertise, I was thrown into it, etc) Even then, I was never disrespectful, just clearly understood that I could've learned much more in the field/subject, had I been given a teacher that had actual knowledge.
ReplyDeleteI believe educators are more observant and responsive to the developmental needs of early adolescents. We pay attention to progress, grow and development, while students assess their selves by letter grades (mainly due to the way the system is run).